Investor Interview: Li Tan

The Kirkland Capital Group investor family has many different types of investors — each with their own story. In this interview we talk with Li Tan, CPA.

Li is a finance and accounting professional with over twenty years of experience in the manufacturing, technology and real estate industry. She spent her early professional career with Deloitte and then Grant Thornton. She went on to be the corporate controller of a global manufacturing company. Li is currently the corporate controller for a real estate development, investment, and property management firm.

“I’ve always had this really mean independent streak and my parents weren’t really used to it.”

Li, Charles, and family.

In the interview we discuss her background in political science, finance, and accounting, and how this has influenced her career and investment approach. She also explains her involvement in real estate investment and why she invested in the Kirkland Income Fund.

“Our continuing involvement in the Kirkland Income Fund generates some really nice passive income without actually having to physically own any real estate property.”

Li, along with her husband and two kids, reside in Seattle. They love the restaurant scene in and around Seattle and enjoy spending time outdoors playing sports, skiing, and hiking.

You can connect with Li on LinkedIn.

Watch the Interview

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Transcript

Brock Freeman: Li. It's great to have you on this interview with Chris and I. 

Li Tan: Thank you. It's really nice to be here with you guys. 

Chris Carsley: Thanks Li.

Brock Freeman: We look forward to kind of digging in and finding more about you and your career. What you do day to day. Your investment theory or investment ideas your thinking behind that, especially on the real estate side, and even wrap up with a few fun questions about you yourself, and maybe your family a little bit.

So let's get started. Let's just start at the beginning here, at least, you know, sort of the beginning of anybody's career, where did you go to school and how did you choose to go to that school? 

Li Tan: Yeah. Well, I actually went to the University of Washington and graduated with an undergraduate degree in political science.

And I picked the University of Washington because, you know, being a lifelong Washingtonian, especially in the Puget Sound area, that was the school of my dreams. And then after I finished my studies at the university of Washington I decided to go into or to get an accounting degree. So I went to Seattle U and I actually got another undergraduate degree there.

Wasn't really, at the time, didn't think about pursuing a masters. It was more just wanting to just get that foundation. So so that's why I chose to get an undergraduate degree and mean, I had heard that Seattle U at the time. Still today have a, has a very good business school and accounting program.

Brock Freeman: Wow. That's actually quite interesting that you started off in political science. What has that really affected how you do accounting or how your approach to accounting is compared to some of your other peers in the industry? 

Li Tan: Yeah, well, I don't really look and compare myself to others, but you know, the reason I chose political science to start with was because when I went to University of Washington, my mom said, go into accounting.

Chris Carsley: So, I just knew, (Laughter) 

She got her wish, obviously.

Brock Freeman: Hilarious! Yeah ,

 Yeah, that's....

Li Tan: At the end, she had the last laugh. So, but no, I mean, actually what happened was I did take you know, accounting 1 0 1   at the University of Washington, but at the same, not same quarter, I took a political science class and I discovered that, you know, me being a current events junkie, that was actually way more interesting for me.

And so that's why I wanted to pursue. And the other thing too was I really liked the analytical aspect, being able to do research and you know, write papers and make arguments. Right. And so that's what I wanted. And so that's why I pursued that. And then in terms of answering your question, how has that helped me?

I actually have found that to be very helpful. After I graduated from Seattle University, I went to, Oh, I joined Deloitte Touche as a staff auditor. And you know, a lot of that work is not a lot of number crunching. It's really. Evaluating financial statements evaluating you know, our clients financial results, and also looking at the accounting rules that come out and determine whether some of their complex issues and transactions meet those accounting rules.

And what's included in that is the analysis and the research, and as well as writing those position papers. And that helped me a lot. In my career, when I was at Deloitte to know when I moved on to Grant Thornton, you know, it was very helpful.

Brock Freeman: Interesting.

Li Tan: And then now, currently I am. Yeah. Currently I'm a corporate controller for a real estate company and same thing, you know, we have memos and or transactions where we need to document, you know, our positions.

And so that's been very helpful to me too. 

Chris Carsley: Yes. That understanding of qualitative and quantitative, that's a good combo. 

Brock Freeman: How. Tell to tell us now, I, since you kind of started, it's a good dovetail into your role now, you know, what, what is sort of been your career and how did you get, and how did you pick the company you work with?

Li Tan: Sure. Yeah, so, like I said, I started with my career at Deloitte where I did a lot of public company accounting and auditing and did the same thing when I went over to Grant Thornton, a lot of my focus was on just large and small clients and any kind of business in the industry.You know, me being very curious about a lot of things, I didn't really have a particular focus.

But what I did discover was that I really was interested in manufacturing and in real estate and the reason for that is because the products that are included in those industries are very tangible. You know, with manufacturing, you're building something, you know, how do you, how do you get the raw material into the final product?

What's the process? And that to me is very interesting. Then, and on the real estate side, you know, of course you see buildings and homes and all the construction related to it. That's also that also piqued my interest. And so having a career. You with Grant Thornton and Delloite allowed me to pursue those interests.

And so when I got to the point where I was ready to leave I think Grant Thornton. I actually had an opportunity to go work for a global manufacturing company based in Kent. And it was actually pretty exciting, you know, to be able to be involved in, on that side of the business and just sit and, you know, work with my teams with an, with the executive team and to, you know, come up with a strategy and how do we implement those strategy?

And then. But how do we get the data from, you know, our accounting records, right? To evaluate, how do we evaluate that to assure that our strategy is working? That to me was a lot of fun. And then after a few years of doing that, I decided I wanted to try something different and an opportunity with this company came my way.

And so I decided to look into it and thought this would actually be a really good fit, especially where. I was at the time, as well as you know, my kids being older. I wanted to be able to spend more time with them. And so this, my current position allows me to do that. 

Brock Freeman: So what has been your biggest one or two challenges in what you do?

Day-to-day now? 

Li Tan: I think for me, it's really because of the pandemic, you know, we are working remote some of the times you know, last year at the beginning of the pandemic we went to almost a hundred percent remote and that was  pretty challenging time because I was new to the company.

And, you know, I was working with a property accountants who had a lot of property accounting experience, but there were still some areas where she could continue to develop. And since right now we're a two person team, you know, there's things where I would love to be able to teach her so that, you know, she and I can do some analysis, right.

And be able to drive You know like new processes and procedures to, to ensure that we're meeting our our company's strategies. And so that's been really difficult, right? It was that the training is really difficult when you're doing it remote. And so a lot of times it's getting used to, you know using zoom, especially in the beginning, it was learning to do that and then they're out, okay.

What's the best way to train, you know, my property accountant so that her and I can basically, you know, create a world-class organization. So that's, to me, that's just the biggest challenge that I see right now. 

Chris Carsley: Okay, great. Yeah. It's difficult to you know, train and, and really have that face-to-face time that's needed for a manager to, you know, really bring that person up to speed.

That's a, that's definitely a difficulty across a lot of companies. 

Li Tan: Yeah, yeah. To me, I really value face time. And so, you know, I think once we, I guess this year, you know, we actually moved into a new office space. So once we moved completed our move, I actually am starting more time spending more time in the office because I do prefer that face time.

Chris Carsley: Nice.

Brock Freeman: Oh, well, Chris, did you have any? Yeah, sure. We can ... 

Chris Carsley: Let's talk and dive in a little bit. It's it's obviously something you've you've got a lot of interests and passions and I always Have found that from an investment standpoint, it's always wise to find something you're interested in and that you really want to spend the time and educate yourself on and let that drive a good portion of your investments.

So let's dive in, tell us a little bit about you know, your investment portfolio, how maybe even back up a little bit and how you got first. I mean, in investing, I mean, it's always, it's always a different story of how people realized I should. I should really start saving and investing. 

Li Tan: Yeah. I think for me, I've always had this really mean independent streak, you know, and and my parents weren't really used to it.

You know, we have, you know, coming from a Chinese background, right. It was a lot of, it was reverence to the family, to the parents. And not that I had any disrespect from my parents that I really wanted to be able to prove myself. Right. And so right from the beginning, you know, when I started my career, I, for me I did a lot of savings.

Right. Because I wanted to prove to my parents that I can take care of myself, kind of break that, you know Chinese girl mold, right. Being obedient, and wanting to show them that, you know, I can stand on my own two feet. And so I, so my, I started off just with doing a lot of savings because my goal was to be able to buy my own house.

Okay. And to be able to be financially self-sufficient right. And so so that's how I started. And actually my first purchase real estate purchase is a condo, which Chris you've actually have been to some parties. And you know, and I was able to purchase that with I was able to I saved enough for a down payment, but then my parents also contributed to that as well.

So I felt pretty good about it. And you know, and so that was my first purchase. And then I met my husband and he, you know, his family has been renting properties for a while. And so got into property rentals because of him. And when we moved into, after we got married and we bought a house, we actually kept my condo and we rented that out.

And I'm, it's been almost 20 years now and I still have that condo. It's such a great investment for us. And and then thereafter, you know, a lot of our investing has been in real estate because just because of how well we've done. But we've also invest in, you know, in mutual funds. You know, I, I don't have a lot of time.

So for me, it's. The mutual fund route is a lot more, I guess, more safe for me compared to just outright investing in stocks, you know that's a little too sophisticated for me, so I would prefer just something where it's hands off and so I can spend my time doing other stuff, you know, so a lot of my investing right now is the, just the real estate as well as in mutual funds.

And and then, you know, talk to you Chris, last year and about the Kirkland income. And, and we thought between my husband and Charles and I, we just thought, Hey, this might be something interesting for us to diversify because one of the things that we, well, one of our goals as you know, is to really generate wealth and accumulate wealth. Right. And this is one way where we thought, well, you know, this is something new for us and maybe something worth looking into. And so you know, so that's the reason why we decided to participate in this fund. 

Chris Carsley: Yeah. I mean, I know some of the conversations we had, maybe you can kind of describe you know, dive into your it's new for you, but it was also.

I, I believe there was spurred from some challenges that you guys were experiencing in the direct ownership aspect of if you could kind of, you know, walk through a little bit of what you guys were experiencing in the direct ownership of real estate and why you thought. Okay, hey, maybe we should think about something that's still real estate related. It still has that downside protection aspect that people love about real estate, but it was different from what you already doing and you know, how that sort of resonated with, you know, you and Charles. 

Li Tan: Sure. Yeah. So, you know, as I've mentioned, you know, Charles brought into the marriage a range rental property, right and so it was actually a triplex. He was living in one of the units is renting out the other two. And then I rented out my condo. So mine being a fairly at the time, fairly new unit, new property. I hadn't, I had very little challenges, very little maintenance, you know, it was very easy. We hired a leasing agent to help us rent out to condo.

And then, from there, there was hardly any maintenance because the new building, so I didn't really have to do anything. So it was actually a really nice passive income for us. On the triplex side, you know, it's an older building. And so I'm being that my husband was, you know, he was living there so he was onsite. It was easy for the tenants to knock on his door every time there was a problem, you know. And it got to the point where We just decided, you know, that was a lot of work for us. We wanted to be able to pursue some of our interests and not have to always be at our tenants back in cost.

So he eventually sold it. And and then at the time it was, I believe in the early or mid two thousands with the big condo building boom in downtown Seattle. So we invested in another brand new project and took and purchased another condo. And You know, and with that, it was that piece of property.

It was also a nice passive and compress. We didn't have to do a lot of maintenance and really liked that a lot. And so we currently, we only have one rental property because we ended up selling that property in downtown Seattle through an unsolicited offer. So it was actually kinda nice to you know, we didn't put anything on the market, but we had a buyer come to us and say, hey, I want this property.

And so then when you came to us Chris, you know, just being able to listen and understand from you, what kind of, you know, real estate the fund is investing in. And the fact that we really don't have to do much other than you know, in dust you know, make our minimum investment. Right. It was really nice to be able to just see again, this is nice passive income for us. We don't have to do much. And really it's you and Brock and your team, you guys are doing all the work. And that was totally fine with that, you know, yeah. And the fact that you got, you guys are also investing in real estate property, or I'm sorry, offering loans to you know, developing a, to existing real estate property.

It was really, it, it gave us some comfort because we knew that there was some kind of underlying asset that's backing up what we're investing in. 

Chris Carsley: Yeah, no, that that's that's one of the core premises of, you know, w w what we're creating here. Do you have any future views? What, what are you looking for in the future of your investments?

I mean it sounds like you, you, you still have your condo, you had a great selling opportunity of the one downtown. Charles is no longer being bothered to come fix appliances. Do you have anything you know you know, that you're looking for him, you're obviously an investor in our fund. You know, give us a sort of an insight of maybe what your your next adventure is or where your thoughts are.

Li Tan: Yeah. So right now I think, you know, fresh definitely. Well, We want to be able to grow our real estate empire. Right. And I do believe that our continuing involvement in the Kirkland income fund is going to help us achieve that, you know, in that it'll give us it will help us do gets it'll help us generate some really nice passive income without actually having to physically own any real estate property.

And that to us is very attractive. The other thing too, is that we're also looking at other real estate, you know, opportunities. To determine whether it makes a lot of sense for us to you know, purchase we've been doing really well with the you know, brand new condos. We've been very lucky, you know, with that.

And so that is something that we're looking into at possibly you know, evaluating whether we want to. Pursued this you know, but it's just something that Charles and I have been talking about for the last year. So we're still evaluating what we want to do and considering, you know, with the pandemic and everything that's going on, it's something that we're not really interested in brushing into right now.

Chris Carsley: Yeah. Patience is a virtue , is of your choosing, 

Brock Freeman: About some of the... Oh, sorry about that, Chris. I was going to ask Lee, what's your feeling about some of the offerings around syndicated apartment complexes? Multi-family that seems to be a popular thing to invest in on the real estate side, where you can take an LP or a passive investment and kind of grow things a little differently than what we offer with Kirkland.

Chris Carsley: You cut out there, Brock, but yeah, he was just saying with a different thing, Kirkland income funding. What sort of your view on some of these aspects to syndications? 

Li Tan: Yeah, I actually think that would be a great opportunity for us if we found the right opportunity. Right. Because again, we wouldn't have to manage any of that.

And that's again, it's just something very attractive for us, you know? What, the one thing that I look for is the accessibility of the management team. And that's the reason why we ended up invested into the Kirkland income fund is because both of you are very accessible, you know. And when we have questions, you know, Are always available to answer those questions for us and not just to pay lip services, but really, you know, just to make us go away.

Right. But it's really to have a conversation with us, which is actually very helpful. And so with their, you know, with their, if there are other opportunities to join a syndicate, like you're suggesting Brett.. Brock, that is something that we would be interested in if it's the right opportunity. And if we have, we can do that type of relationship with the management team.

Chris Carsley: That's smart. I mean, we're, we're big believers in transparency and, and, and really being there to make sure that information can be transferred. And then people get, you know, build that comfort. So that, that's a very smart view towards whatever you're investing in, make sure you have that transparency and that link to, you know, have a mechanism to have your questions answered.

That's that's myself and many others have made mistakes of being too separated from things. And then by the time something goes wrong and you try to go get information. Somehow you can never get anybody. So it's a very common mistake, so don't make that one. 

Li Tan: Yeah. I'm learning from you. 

Chris Carsley: There's from my mistakes.

Don't don't don't don't don't don't do what I've done in the past. Exactly. 

So,  yeah Brock I'll issue back to you.  

Brock Freeman: Question for you Li. Was this the first time that you've invested in a private fund or a private alternative fund was the Kirkland income fund? 

Li Tan: Yes, it is. Yeah. I mean, you know, I've, I've, I've had clients where, you know, they are, I mean, a large real estate company that offer funds to outside investors and which I think that's what attracted me to that was because of that experience and, you know, working with those clients.

Right. And so But, you know, obviously, because I know both of you guys before this, it made me more comfortable in investing in a Kirkland income fund because, because of that prior relationship. 

Brock Freeman: Great. Thanks. So Chris, and unless you got some more questions on the investment side, we'll shift to a little bit more personal.

Chris Carsley: No, no , I, I think, I think Lee has a fascinating story that I hope a lot of people watch this, especially you know, I work with a lot of, you know, younger women at UDaB and everything else, and they're always trying to figure out how do I get into investments. So Li, you've done an absolutely amazing job without a lot of handholding to be on the right track.

So congratulations on that. Yeah. 

Li Tan: Thank  you.

Brock Freeman: Yeah. That's great. 

Li Tan: Hopefully I can pass that knowledge to them.

Chris Carsley: We hope we can. 

Brock Freeman: I'm sure. 

Chris Carsley: When they, when they listen, when they listen

Li Tan: Yeah,

Brock Freeman: Well, but now you kind of know what to expect is if you want your kid to go into accounting, you tell them, you know, I think political science might be good. Right. 

You know, that's so funny because that is what I tell them. I'm like, get some, get the balance, right. Go pursue some liberal arts and a business degree, because I think that's going to be very helpful for you.

Yeah, I think you're right, that, that balance, and being able to both quantitatively and qualitatively look and analyze things is, is, is important. 

Li Tan: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. I believe, you know, people get scared when they see financial statements, but you have to realize it's just telling a story. You have to be able to interpret it and, you know, kind of retell that story.

Chris Carsley: Yes.

Brock Freeman: Right.

So. Let's switch kind of on the personal thing. It's been a crazy period, particularly with this pandemic, but it also, I'm sure, as you mentioned before with your career and full, full family, wonder things that you would really want to do more of, but you haven't had time for?

Li Tan: That is a really good question. I think what I'd really love to do more of is to just go outside. And, do more high schools visit more of the parks in and around in and around Seattle. You know, having lived here in this and within the city of Seattle for almost 20 years, never really had a chance to be a tourist in my own city, you know, and a couple of weeks ago our kids had was on mid-winter break.

And so what we did is we stayed in a hotel in downtown Seattle for a few nights. And we became tourists in our own city. And that was actually a lot of fun, you know, because much in the past and the, when we have vacation scheduled, we think about going elsewhere, you know, so we've done a lot of really great vacations as a family.

We've gone to Mexico, Hawaii Bermuda, just anywhere. Right. But never in the Seattle area. So this is something that I will say. If I'm looking for a silver lining, right. I'm grateful for the pandemic and it's forced us to slow down and really look around us and see what's available here. You know. So I've had a chance to take my son up to discovery park where I've never done.

I mean, I've been there once, but I've never taken my kids up there, you know, and he loved it. He said it was like so much fun to go up there. And he wants to, he's making plans for us to go back in the summertime when the weather, but there was nicer, you know. So those are, that's just, stuff that, you know, I'm really looking forward to.

And I really am committed in just making more time for. 

Brock Freeman: What new belief, behavior or habits that you've adopted in the last five years have most positively 

impacted your life?

Li Tan: I think for me, it's Just being able to be agile, you know, I mean, I have my, I have goals. I know what the end goal and goal looks like. Right. And I do have a plan for that there, but I also realized that if that plan doesn't work, it's not done in the world and I should always have a plan B or plan C in my back pocket, you know, just to be able to have that agility, to adjust and you know, realize that, hey,  this there's no one perfect way to do something that for me has been really helpful. 

And it's, you know, allowed me to also share that with my children. I know my kids get very frustrated. If there things don't go the way they plan for, you know, or if my kids loved, they liked structure. And so if I can't, you know, sometimes I'm have my failures.

Isn't doesn't work and I am not able to do something with them. They get really upset. So then I, you know, I teach them that to learn, to be agile, to come up with a solution for how we can still do something together, but just in a different way. 

Brock Freeman: That's a very, very important life lesson. I'm afraid too many of us take too long to learn.

Li Tan: Yeah. Like me. 

Chris Carsley: That's great. If we could learn that one earlier.

Brock Freeman: Yeah. And last we'll wrap up with what books have you gifted the most to other people?

Li Tan: Oh my gosh. Do you know what, this is actually a very hard question. And the reason is because I have not been reading a lot lately since I've had kids, you know, so but I will say that I, one of my favorite apps is the Libby app, you know, where it's connected to the library system. And so I've started using that in the last year and have started reading some books off of that.

And it's been really great, you know, and And, and so it's given me the opportunity to just find a whole bunch of books you know, online and just be able to just read it right off of my iPhone or my iPad. I will say that I don't like reading business books or self-help books or how to books. And the only reason is because I'm not saying because I'm perfect.

It's just that I feel like this is someone else's opinion, which I think it's great. But I would rather look for a form of escapism because you know, I'm working during the day and always, there's always a lot of problems and issues that I'm always dealing with that by the end of the day, I don't want to read another business book.

You know, I just want to read something where I can escape, you know? It could be, it could be historical fiction. It could be It could even be, Oh my gosh, why a young adult where I can like have a conversation with my daughter and we can talk have, you know, like kind of like a book club discussion, which is really nice to be able to see what my kids like to read and be able to share that with them.

You know? That's great. So yeah, unfortunately I, there hasn't been any books I've gifted to anybody because I'd rather just, you know, read the kind of books my kids are reading so I can spend time with them. 

Brock Freeman: Well, in some sense, you're gifting that those books. You're gifting that, that enjoyment of books together with your kids, which is, which is wonderful.

Li Tan: Well, yeah, I guess that's a good point.

Chris Carsley: Yeah. You're sharing with them. 

Brock Freeman: Well, Li, it's been a great time to interview and dig in more and find out more about you and share your story with everybody. Who's watching this. 

Li Tan: Well, thank you so much for having me on and thank you for giving me an opportunity to share some of my experiences and my views.

You know, again, I really enjoy working with you guys, and I'm really glad that Charles and I are a part of the part of this fund. And we're just excited to see what you guys can do. You know, as we continue to progress and grow. 

Chris Carsley: No ,thank you. 

Brock Freeman: Right. All right. Have a great day. 

Li Tan: Okay. Thank you. You too.

Chris Carsley: Have a good one. Bye everybody.